Hypothetical ancestors

[Ron at]

----- Original Message -----
From: "STEPHEN MANNING" <SDMANNING at ASUB.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hypothetical ancestors


> >Creationists sometimes tend to be highly qualified scientists, but
usually
> >in fields such as engineering, chemistry etc and come across
> >authoritatively in areas in which they have had no basic training. Their
> >use of holy books (Bible, Koran etc) as the source of their information,
> >makes it difficult to have any sort of logical discussion. However maybe
> >Taxacom is not the best discussion list for a topic such as this.
>
>   It is probably as good as any.
>
> Steve Manning

We had a debate here in Charleston, SC twenty or so years ago sponsored by
the Medical University of South Carolina between a creationist and
"secular" evolutionist.  They were both PhDs.   There was never one word
mentioned about the "bible" or anything in it.   The debate was about one
and a half hours.  Trying to be as objective as possible (since I'm a
main-line Christian minister) the evolutionist lost.  At best it was a
draw.  I do not remember their particular area of study but it was the same
for both.  I also was not much interested in going to this before hand as I
figured it would just be a bunch of religious "bible" stuff vs. science.
Afterwards I was glad I went.

Behe's - Darwin's Black Box (1997 I think) and a book called 6 Numbers
(author escapes me) are ones I would recommend.  I have read the first and
a member of my church has been filling me in on the second and is to be
giving me his copy when he is finished.  The first is pro designer/design
and the second strictly evolutional.

Like all of us, I have my own views.   God is a fact (not faith) with me -
but I wouldn't get into that here any more than alien abductions as facts
to some people.
"Creationism" is dominated by fundamental sects to the exclusion of people
who hold views on it as I have.  (Which I don't particularly want to get
into either.)  All I will say is that there are many, and widely differing
(understatement), views on Creation and the Bible Belt types who speak the
loudest and most frequent have just hogged the microphone.  In my view they
neither understand evolution nor the Bible they claim to follow so
literally.   I have said this to simply say two things.

First,  I think it is good to sponsor on campus debates with PhD
professionals on this topic - keep the preachers out.

Second,  most people who claim to speak for God in this world - aren't.
They are only doing their own thing in "his" name.   Creationism has more
than one voice/view and most of those guys sure don't speak for me.

Ron Gatrelle
TILS president
Charleston, SC - USA
http://www.tils-ttr.org

PS  I have been so tied up lately I have not had the opportunity to follow
some of these very interesting threads very closely - including this one.
So I'm just dropping in in the middle of the conversation.